When you say “we” to whom are you referring? By doing so, there is no threat to issues of religious liberty. Some of us are paying attention. Religion should not be taught in schools as a ‘history of superstition’ Hostility towards Catholicism blinding us to how much we depend on the Christian faith Fri, Mar 15, 2013, 11:45 Because “at least has some connection to American history that no other religion does.””. They flourish infinitely. Indeed. I submit that, even for those who were deists and atheists, the Christian faith tradition had profound impact on the way they thought. “Again, why didn’t the Constitution endorse through amendment the christian ideologies of the day?”. The question of whether religion should be taught in public schools has been debated at length. Try studying the Bible for the details of just how this works. And again, no religion should be taught in school because it is morally and intellectually suspect. Here’s a bit more about how the founders felt about religious expression in public life, and since it’s on topic, here a really good piece about Jefferson’s creation of a university. Three problems here: When Rush died in 1813, Jefferson asked the family to return the document to him. I don’t feel any need to worry about how God does His business. On what basis? Are you claiming that the faith traditions that SHOULD be taught are only those of the majority religion? You say unequivocally that you know you’re going to heaven, regardless of your behavior with absolutely no fear of accountability to your deity since you accept Jesus. Fear can be scary when it’s supported by Bronze Age insanity. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and import duties, and give respect and honor to all to whom it is due. By not offering an argument or evidence exposes you as holding your view for flacid and unintellectual reasons. Well then it’s a damned good thing that doesn’t happen by the mere teaching of Christianity in public schools. I trust that He knows what He’s doing. You, stupidly think “MY SIDE” is losing. You can’t even sort out the doctrinal matters of your “proofs and evidence” amongst the few christians on this blog. “ If anything pass in a religious meeting seditiously and contrary to the public peace, let it be punished in the same manner and no otherwise as it had happened in a fair or market[39] ” Following the 1800 campaign, Jefferson became more reluctant to have his religious opinions discussed in public. 1 The Bible may be taught in a school, but only for its historical, cultural or literary value and never in a devotional, celebratory or doctrinal manner, or in such a way that encourages acceptance of the Bible as a religious document. Millaquin Bend option should be reconsidered if levee is not progressed or delayed according to study. If religion is banned from schools, it would be unconstitutional to religious students who want to worship during school days, turning religious freedom into freedom from religion. I’ve done one of the following: –I’ve suggested discussion of the existence of a deity in public schools. Teachers in the suburban town of Wellesley, Massachusetts spend half the school year teaching the world’s religions to … Sorry, I mistook your question for a statement. It was also directed at those thought to be harming the Christian faith in which they were raised. We know the mechanics of the grammar. Historically, it is difficult to deny the importance of religious education. During the Middle-Ages, most education was oversighted or run by the Church across Europe. Try to keep up. John, I have no problem philosophically with the idea of eight year olds or 17 year olds talking about the question, “Does God exist?” any more than I have a problem in theory with 8 or 17 year old’s discussing, “What is the Right answer to abortion or marriage for gay folk?” In theory. A government program set up to save millions of dollars’ worth of produce from going to waste has attracted shockingly few workers. These exist already. “Does the faith traditions of the many settlers from across the globe not count as a connection?”. How does it fit into the core curriculum of reading, writing and math? Our acknowledgement or rejection of truth has too great an impact for that. Really? A majority of strong believers is a hedge against self indulgence. I find it awfully convenient that skeptics only choose to reference the same 3 or 4, and not the other 200. I’ve seen what public education has done to documented history, twisting and distorting facts to fit their prejudices. Is that all you’ve got? 0. You fear so badly that it is you who will be proven wrong and that is why the thought of such a discussion in public schools is so frightening to you. If you’re going to try to use Scripture against even a poor student of Scripture as myself, have at least enough SELF respect to use it properly. You know…with grace and humility. What you so foolishly misunderstand is that separation, especially as understood and explained by Jefferson, was merely the focus on the denying government any say in how one follows the dictates of his heart. Do you think the Spanish should not refer to God as Dios? Jefferson is in Hell is he not? Schools do not only aim to teach children basic things, but also help them become good adults. 3. In a letter to William Short in 1820, he expressed that his intent was to “place the character of Jesus in its true and high light, as no imposter himself”, but that he was not with Jesus “in all his doctrines”, Jefferson described many passages as “so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture”. The best part about the links I’ve provided, is that they provide, in context, the words of the founders based on their actual writings. ” First you appeared to ONLY want those who agreed with your faith tradition (my faith tradition and those who believe as I do would not be hired by you, according to your earlier comments).”. I hope this clears up at least THIS incredible misconception of yours. This response does not answer the question. Most of the books were copied by monks and theology was a key subject of study. “So you and the majority of the founders lost this fight a long time ago. It is like it is now because of a minute minority of people who complain to courts who interpret by penumbra. “You DON’T want merely to have the option of teaching a world religions sort of class, you want a specifically Christian, specifically modern conservative evangelical-friendly, it would appear.”. Hmmmmmmm….”. It allowed for the fact that this was already done through the individual states’ constitutions and laws. Until then, answer the question of the post’s title. Your questions are diversionary. “Why did your god discontinue that practice?”, “Why did your team lose, and continue to lose?”. If so, what is it? BTW your proposition about the existence of your god, requires “YOU” to prove the claim, not I, no matter how many times you you repeat otherwise. Dan is not alone.You are not alone. As fully explained, the statement regarding Scripture and God being in question only exists by virtue of people like you insisting that what Scripture clearly states, in terms no honest person can misinterpret, is not so. The suggestion raises many problematic (for you) questions that remain unanswered.”. It is just as valid and relevant as evolution. –I’ve suggested the teaching of Christianity. Smarter Shopping Is it a particular obsession of yours? For what it’s worth. In 1954, Congress revised the Pledge of Allegiance to refer to the nation as “under God,” a phrase that has since been recited by generations of schoolchildren. So many people have lost the values of respect, compassion and moral standards (however viewed) that Christianity brings. The zealots say your going to hell. Students of history know that when a state starts embracing one tradition over another, it is a recipe for corruption of both the state AND the church. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations. Parents, who probably don’t have a college degree or training in this subject matter, are a better choice than a complete stranger with training and … ” are you afraid of an eternity in hell for your behavior?”, “Aren’t you promised a paradise in heaven for just accepting Christ?”. Must have been some other Marshal Art, because I never said that. Crime To suggest it played no role is to teach falsehood about how the nation came to be. Schools do not only aim to teach children basic things, but also help them become good adults. Oh, BTW, you and I are not on the same side. you said I presuppose God exists. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”[45], On one hand Jefferson affirmed, “We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus, and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in his discourses”,[46] and that he was “sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others”,[47] and that “the doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man”. No one here, for example, suggests that there should be religious litmus tests for elected anyone. News One of my brothers, who is an atheist, has recently said the same thing to me. He never ceased to denounce the “blasphemous absurdity of the five points of Calvin”, writing three years before his death to John Adams: “ His [Calvin’s] religion was demonism. Again, why didn’t the Constitution endorse through amendment the christian ideologies of the day? My point is that its not a presupposition. A minor quibble, just pointing out this reality. Should John submit a post where your off topic questions would be relevant, I may spend the time to educate you then. Allah is just the Arabic word for God. But I went on to answer your question. Try sounding out the words. Why not practice what you preach? My lot in life is nowhere near pathetic. You’re fear-mongering just as Nash was doing and for the same reason. And you certainly wouldn’t speak or make noise during her prayer, or a paddling would come for that. [36] ” It has answered beyond conception. Or consider this, Marshall: conservative religious types (at least of the sort that you approve of) are on the decline across the US in many places. [62] ” If John Barron believes in Allah the issue is settled with finality and without further argument: The proposition, God exists, is either true or false and can be investigated. Go ahead and prove that unicorns don’t exist. Finally, I have provided evidence for my positions on history that come from the pens of those who lived it. Fears of establishment are totally unfounded,since schools lack the power and authority to establish into law any religion. Public schools may not teach religion, although teaching about religion in a secular context is permitted. Who is going to decide the curriculum? Religion may not be as indispensable, but the humanities should be a part of our repertory. I guess you don’t seem to understand that this isn’t a point I’m making here. That being said, more progressive anabaptists such as myself do differ from many anabaptists – especially the more conservative Amish and Mennonite varieties – on the topic of marriage equity and, to some degree, on approaches to Biblical interpretation and, for some, the notion of the Penal Substitionary Theory of Atonement. It might prohibit the move in this way: “We believe in teaching religion in school, as we can think of no reason why it should not be, but we haven’t worked out the best way to do it. Contrary to how information is delivered in the church, our schools should be teaching how to think instead of what to think. Things like Roe v Wade would never have come to pass had the overall belief in God been more solid throughout the culture at that time, and thus, the need for that law would also have been lessened by virtue of a nation that lives according to a belief system that puts self control over self indulgence. What they shouldn't teach is faith. He agreed that we each are possessed of the right to do so. Pornography is not an example of free speech, since free speech rights were related to speaking out against governmental authority, and the freedom to speak one’s mind on such things, not nudie pictures. So, as I asked repeatedly of Nash, I again ask of you: Why shouldn’t religion be taught in public schools? There is a definitive answer to the question of whether or not God exists, even if determining that answer is beyond our ability. There’s no downside. There is a separation between church and state in this country and it would be against our own constitution to do so. These values, however, must not be taught as religious tenets. (not saying they’re the best arguments against). In 1779 Jefferson proposed “The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom”, which was adopted in 1786. In 1970, a little fewer than 5 percent of the U.S. population was foreign born. We took to Facebook to ask readers: "Are children being 'solicited' into Christianity through religious instruction in school? Let them decide for themselves what they want to believe in. The involvement of religion in public schools is distracting and unnecessary. For many, religion is a very personal thing that is taught by their own family, so if they feel attacked about their religion, they take offense at it personally as it if is an attack on their family and themselves. ii., p. 217)[35] ” [51] From his study of the Bible, Jefferson concluded that Jesus never claimed to be God.[52]. These separation laws are in effect in the country in order to further exemplify the first amendment. It also would help right now with the hurts that kids get emotionally, the ones they suffer from as adults. No. But then, that’s just one of the many reasons we home schooled our kids. There are many benefits to learning about religion. Prove its existence. News Truth is too important for that. I focus on addressing why critic's arguments against my views fail rather than the traditional positive case-making for the Christian worldview. “And to boot it would seem that these very few “flawed” perspectives won the day.”. Our religious beliefs (including opposition to religion) is part of who we are and forms our world view. As for your continuing cracks against so-called accountability to your deity, are you afraid of an eternity in hell for your behavior? 0. “BTW your proposition about the existence of your god, requires “YOU” to prove the claim, not I, no matter how many times you you repeat otherwise.”. So, it appears that YOU recognize the problem of a loss of religious liberty when it’s your loss being discussed. When most, if not all, of our major universities were founded, they were founded (mostly) by ministers and one needed a good working understanding of Scripture to study there. You think Democrats value democracy? Now here’s the truly sad part of your last comment: You think that if I was the last person on earth to feel as I do, and all else pitied and laughed at my ideas, that because of THAT I must repent and believe as YOU DO? How we do it comes later and if at that point no consensus arises, then we don’t do it. Check out this awesome Essays About Why Religion Should Be Taught In Schools for writing techniques and actionable ideas. News Thanks for the kind words. I’m guessing you didn’t look at any of it. Having said that, schools are pretty terrible at teaching kids anything; especially our agenda driven modern schools, so I wouldn’t particularly want any school teaching religion. [53] In this brief work Jefferson affirms Jesus’ “moral doctrines, relating to kindred & friends, were more pure & perfect than those of the most correct of the philosophers, and greatly more so than those of the Jews”, but asserts that “fragments only of what he did deliver have come to us mutilated, misstated, & often unintelligible”, and that “the question of his being a member of the Godhead, or in direct communication with it, claimed for him by some of his followers, and denied by others is foreign to the present view, which is merely an estimate of the intrinsic merit of his doctrines”. The Supreme Court has been very clear about studying religion in school. “No, you don’t want people in my faith tradition/who believe as I do to lead these classes (ANY classes, you said, I believe!).”. ( Log Out /  You can be honest! By allowing such discussions in public schools, we have even greater possibilities of coming to discover just what the truth is on such topics. Schools may indeed and should teach secular values such as honesty, respect for others, courage, kindness and good citizenship. Posted on February 18, 2015 by aks14797. I wonder how it actually took place in the past. It's allowed in publicly funded schools - if it's taught as something that some people believe. This compilation was completed about 1820, but Jefferson did not make these works public, acknowledging “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth” existence only to a few friends. But I don’t fear the results of such a pursuit regardless of the outcome. That serves those who believe in God. No. All the questions you ask are the “how” questions, none of which answer the question of “should”. [31][32] At that time, calling a person an infidel could mean a number of things, including that they did not believe in God. You can’t have it both ways, John, at least I can’t see how you can. Given that, do you still want the democratic process to pick certain religious groups for state approval to lead these classes? I get that. At least this gives our kids some understanding. (Probably not given your incredibly poor reasoning skills), “Is the faith traditions of the Native peoples who were here when Europeans started coming not count as a connection?”. Believers, as is no surprise to believers themselves, are victims of their own human natures just as non-believers are. You look like a dork doing your end zone dance in celebration of your “victory”. Maybe in a multi faith school, other religious and secular leaders would also be invited. Marshall, you continue to use a university in Jefferson’s VA 200 years ago, as if it’s got some weight in this conversation. Denominational schools, know that anabaptists are on a spectrum job to do with forcing, by fiat! 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